Welcome to the Relancer podcast where we talk about talent acquisition topics. I'm Eero, the co -founder of Relancer, the platform where employers connected freelance recruiters. Today we have Carina and we will be talking about how to use personal branding in talent acquisition. Welcome Carina. Hi, thank you so much for inviting me. I'm super excited. I'm very excited also. So maybe we can begin you talking about your journey

to personal branding, what did it look like? Yes. So like I started just studying actually events management in Spanish in Scotland. And then I realized that events planning isn't something that I want to do professionally. And naturally I was led into marketing and from there to employer branding. So I've been working as an employer branding manager for more than five years now.

And well, now I'm a freelance expert, but before that I did only employer branding and that through that, I naturally ended up doing personal branding when I started at Testlio, which is a software testing company. And I started managing their global employer brand and their founder is Kristel Kruustük maybe you know of her. And on my first day when I got to the office,

and she was there too, and she came up to greet me and she was like, I'm so excited to start working with you. You definitely know a lot about branding and you can hopefully help me too. And then from there on, while I was managing the employer brand, we also started working on Kristel's personal brand a bit more. So it was very naturally coming together and I kind of started discovering that realm. And when it comes to employer branding, it's truly actually about

people who work there and their personal brands as well. So I got to support Testlions and so these are the people who work at Testlio with their personal brands as well, tying it to the employer brand of Testlio. So that's kind of where it all got started with Testlio. Did it start with, I have seen the Kristel does TikTok videos. So did she started with those back then or this is new for her?

Yeah, I think it was like when I started working at Testlio as well, she was like, okay, so TikTok is the next big thing. We have to go there. What are your ideas? And I wasn't that familiar with TikTok back then. So I started getting more knowledge and getting into it. And then we started brainstorming together for the video ideas, but all of the stuff comes from her. So this is all her work. I was just supporting her with, you know, maybe bringing some more...

like frameworks into planning the posts and creating them. But yeah, that was when she started. And then I remember we're talking about whether to post them on LinkedIn as well, because, you know, LinkedIn is considered as the professional social media platform and maybe it's supposed to be a bit more informal. But, you know, she's an innovator. So she was like, whatever, I'm just going to post them there too and see what happens. And I think to this day, these are some of her most

popular posts she's ever done on LinkedIn. So that kind of proved that on LinkedIn, we're still people, we're still looking for entertainment at the same time while, you know... learning about our careers and more sharing this professional insight there. So you can do a little like good combination of humor and spreading awareness in her case, software testing. So yeah, that kind of started then.

What was her goal with personal branding? Because I have seen at least the videos is around like testers and then maybe jokes about around that. So is it to get more testers on Testlio's platform or in like general awareness or...? what was the goal for her? The long -term goal, but more about raising awareness about software testers as well in the IT world. If you're a tester

by software developers, you're considered as the lower class in a way, or like, yeah, anybody could do that job, but it's actually difficult and you need experience and knowledge to do it well. So that's kind of her message that, you know, software testers matter and we're cool and we do important things. So that was initially the goal to just spread more awareness and also entertain, do it through humor and fun and yeah, get more people

involved and in general more aware of that. Humor always works. So talking about humor, do you have a fun fuck up story with personal branding to share? Yeah, I was thinking about that because the problem with me is that I don't really spend that much time processing my failures. If I fail, I'm like, okay, cool. What can I learn from it? And then I learn from it and I move on and I forget.

So I don't have like a huge like mess up story. But I have like two maybe not, not necessarily... anyway, I'll just share them and then you decide whether they're fun or not. But one is that we, I decided whenever I have a client meeting, I would take a picture with the client so that I can share it on social media later. And I always forget to do that. So the last time I forgot to do that, I remembered

it later at a bus stop. And I was like, damn it, how am I going to make a post about it now? Because I'm a, I'm a starting entrepreneur. I don't want to share the projects that I'm doing. And this is important to me. But then I just realized that maybe I'll just do a post about forgetting to take a picture. So that's, you know, so I was like, well, it was in the bus stop when I realized that I hadn't, you know, just kind of turning to being authentic. So authenticity is something that I talk about a lot in personal branding.

And I tried to live it myself. So yeah, turning that little failure, as you might call it, into content, just being honest. But the other one is that I do ghost writing as well. So I write like blog posts or articles for clients. And when it's like more of a personal blog post, I sometimes get so into it that I like written a draft. And then at the end where you sign off and you write your name, I would write my own name

instead of the client's and then I would send it to be reviewed and then the client's like, well, please don't leave that in. That's not how it's supposed to work. So that has been maybe a bigger of a failure for me where I feel embarrassed. Where I'm like, damn it, it's not me. You have to do the one that you have like first letters on each row that will spell your name. So it's going to be hidden.

My God, yes, I'm going to be like leaving clues and people can just like connect the dots. This is really cool. But actually, yesterday or the day before, I saw somebody also forgetting to do a picture. And so he used AI to generate the fun caricature. And that, of course, worked very well, I think, in general.

If you want to be very, very cringe, you can put your own audience, all your faces or whatever. So you can be very creative in there. I think have some fun with that. It's a cool thing when you forget something and then you can be, you get to be creative around that. Like how can you tell that story? Personal branding. I think for most of the people, I think most of the people don't understand that almost all of us have actually a personal brand.

Because I can give you an example if somebody would write me a message or send me an email or call me and if it's something relevant to me and I care, I would check out who's the person. I would Google and stuff and then basically you have this online footprint and that's in a way your brand already. So what is personal branding? Yeah, this is super interesting because I realized that many people don't understand that they feel like if I start personal branding, creating my brand, then only then I will...

have a personal brand, but exactly everyone has a personal brand. So an example I like to bring is for, I already talked about Kristel. So when you think about Kristel Kruustük maybe you know her, maybe you don't, but just that name, that person, what's the information that comes to your head? Everything that you know about her, this is her personal brand in your head. So a personal brand is essentially a perception or an idea of a person

based on the information that you know. And then if you have all this information about Kristel in your head right now, and then I would tell you that she's a mother of two kids. She does horseback riding. She has her own horse. And they traveled to, or they lived in South Africa for like almost every winter they go there with the family. Then what I've done is personal branding. So I am...

intentionally choosing the messages that are communicating to you about that person. And this is personal branding. So if you really decide... if you know what the messages are that you're communicating, then you are intentionally shaping your personal brand. And that's the activity. That's the personal branding. So also if we think about it, that this is the idea of a person in everyone's head,

then there are as many personal brands of a person as there are people who know that person or who have heard about them. Does that make sense? Yeah, and I think there is this interesting word you used, intentional. So you will have a personal brand anyways, but at least if you do it intentionally, you can in a way choose the angle where it comes from and what's going to be the perspective that people will see you about you, basically.

Exactly, because the way you present yourself to the world and the things you talk about the way you are, all of this shapes your personal brand and it's mostly unconscious... subconscious if you don't really think about it. But if you know what you want to be associated with and what your goals are and who you're talking to and what are the topics that are really important to you, then you can package them all as a strategy in a way.

And start doing that more intentionally in order to reach your goals. And a personal brand can really help you as a recruiter to be more successful in your work. And also as a, as a leader, as a team leader, as a, as a, just a person in general, if you're looking for new opportunities, speaking gigs, clients... really doesn't, doesn't really matter what, but this is a, you're just consciously knowing and shaping the, the perception of yourself in other people's heads. At least

doing your best, shaping that... there's a part that you can influence and a part you obviously can't, then doing that will help you succeed in so many things. So why it's important for professionals in talent acquisition? How they can use it? Yeah, so if we think about recruiters. So, the job market... the percentage of the working age population,

is decreasing. So there are more people leaving the job market than entering it. So on the job market, there are less and less people, less and less candidates that we're all trying to attract and get to and to hire to our company. And this is why we're talking about employer branding, first of all, because the companies who manage to stand out have a higher chance of attracting top talent because

the goal of an employer brand is to create an idea of a person's head what it's like to work at this company before they've even applied. So if they have this idea in their head, the candidate, then there's a higher chance that they're going to apply for this company that they know about and have an idea of than the one that they don't know. And where the recruiters come in is that recruiters essentially are the employer brand ambassadors.

They're the ones who talk about the company, what it's like to work there, but also they bring in their own personal brand, which is why are they working at this company? Do they have personal stories to share? Because also most of the candidates do research online before they apply about the employer. And if they, if we take, for example, the career page or a social media post that's posted from a company's social media page,

anonymously saying that we have very flexible working. Great, this is anonymous. I, you know, how can I, is this legit? Somebody is saying that I don't know who and versus a recruiter, for example, who's talking about her experience personally on her LinkedIn account, for example, about flexibility and sharing a personal story. I read that, I see that behind that is a specific person with a name

and a picture, a testing to it that this is real, this is my experience. It's much more trustworthy than what is shared under an anonymous account basically, a company account. So this is where the recruiter can come in and share their stories and their experience and the reason why they're working at this company and why they like working there and why it's a great place to work at. And through that really shape the employer brand authentically as well,

and create a more illustrated picture in the candidate's head what it's like to work there and therefore build the trust and then there will be a higher chance that the candidate will apply. I could talk about it for like another 20 minutes. I'm like, what is the most important thing? What are the most important things to like mention now? But I can go into more detail, obviously. There are a lot more sides to it. Yeah, I think one of the things that pointed out,

to me is the trust factor definitely. And also if you think about the recruiter, for example, we can take the recruiter in this case. So it's the first point of contact for the candidate. So her story, her whatever she does is the first impression of the company for the candidate. So in that case, the more information that is available

for the candidate, the more trust is built and there is then higher probability for them to answer your messages, to move through the process. And I would say also like it can be a positive effect. For example, like if there is somebody working in the company, you like her and her personal brand looks good, then you feel like, okay, like if she's working there, maybe it's a good place for me also. Like, so there is probably a lot of different angles how it can.

have benefits, building this trust and all the other things also that you can have. It's the ambassadorship essentially in a nutshell, but exactly building trust when we think about it, the candidate journey doesn't really start with applying, it starts before. So if as a recruiter, you start by building your network, meeting people at conferences,

or different events in real life. So when we talk about personal branding, a lot of people immediately think LinkedIn or social media. Yes, the online presence is super important and we're going to talk about that too, but it's also in real life when you meet people in different situations, but it's really building the trust. So first of all, meeting them or just becoming visible on social media and adding them to your connections, to your network

so that they're aware of your existence. This is the first step. And then building trust over time. It's the interactions, the content that you share so that the potential candidate who's still not your candidate just gets familiar, becomes familiar with you and where you work and exactly builds this relationship or this trust kind of like, "Okay, I like what they share. They seem to be a pretty cool person with great experience and great knowledge. I want to follow them."

And "They work at this company – interesting, this company must be pretty good because this really respected person and the person that I really like is working there." And then once they share a job ad, for example, then there's a higher chance that I'll be more interested in taking a look. So exactly, there are a lot of different steps how to get, how to build that trust. So maybe we can dive into the fears and misconceptions

that are related to personal branding. So there might be people that understand it can be beneficial for them, but the next step might be fears and not knowing what's going to happen. Misconception that I always get is like, like I already mentioned immediately, they think about posting. Okay, so when I start shaping my personal brand, that means that I have to start creating LinkedIn posts four or five times a week. I don't have the time for that. I don't, like it takes me more than an hour to...

write a post, I don't want to do any of that. So I'd like to break that myth. It's just, it's like a tiny part of personal branding. You don't necessarily have to create a lot of content and share your personal life with everyone because it's personal branding. So I must be talking about my love life and how I, whatever, all those things. We don't, it's just you as a person having your experience, sharing your story within a context and you yourself decide how personal you want to go with it.

If you just decide that, okay, I want to talk about my experience as a recruiter, then that's fine. This is also good. Just as long as you share your experience and your story. And some of the fears what people are afraid of is, well, depends on who. When we talk about Estonia and knowing our people were maybe not super social as a...

as a society, right? But I know that recruiters are more social than an average Estonian person, but sometimes there's fear around networking, like making new contacts. Like how do you actually approach them? Or if they're not a potential candidate, why should I add them to my connections or why should I talk to them? Like I don't have a specific goal. So when it comes to personal branding for recruiters as well, it's about building the network, thinking about the positions that you're...

maybe not hiring for right now, but in the future. And you need to build the talent pool for that so that once you need to hire for that position, you already have the pool, you already have built the trust with this, with these potential candidates, and then you share the opportunity, the job opportunity, and there's a higher chance that people are going to apply. So there's a, yeah, there's a fear around networking. So this is why it's so important to really think about your strategy and think about your messages. What are the things that I...

want to connect with over... what I want to connect over with these people. What am I going to ask them about? What are the topics that I really care about when it comes to recruiting? What do I want to know about them? So really thinking through what the maybe conversation points are so that it's easier to network. Because you always know that these are the things that I'm going to talk about and I won't feel awkward or weird or that this will be a weird experience.

So this is one, maybe some other fears. People are scared to share their story. They think that it doesn't matter. I asked that question from pretty many of my clients and this was the one that was shared by a recruiter saying that maybe they don't care. And maybe, who am I to share my experience? But that's the cool part about personal branding. This is your personal story. So nobody can come and tell you because sometimes you're afraid that.

Maybe somebody in the comments is going to call me out and say that I'm not right, start a conflict, right? But if this is your story, then nobody else can tell you that this is not true. So it's really about sharing your experience and what you learned from it, for example, and some of the things that maybe the readers can take away. So really focusing on what your story is and what the values that you can create. Yes.

And then one, when it comes to, to posting again, people think that it's all about posting that I haven't been creating content for like years, like never. And now I decide to immediately start posting because now everyone's like, okay, she, she, he, they are. They're doing personal branding now and creating content. It doesn't feel authentic because, because they haven't done it so far. But again, when you start doing that.

You don't have to go from zero to a hundred. If you never create a content, try making a post once a month. If you manage that, maybe do twice a month. So people feel like when I start doing that, that means that I have to do everything immediately. Nope. Maybe just start adding new people to your network who might be potential candidates or potential clients. If you're working, if you're a recruiter at an agency, for example, or a freelance recruiter.

So it's all simple, little steps. Yeah, one of the things that is definitely important is building the network. So I just recently talked with a recruiter from gaming industry and she told me that sometimes it will take years before she can offer somebody something to a person she has had in the network.

And in that case, like if you're building your network, it's getting bigger and bigger. So for branding or doing something, it doesn't have to be so often. So you, if you have already thousands of people in there, some of them like the maximum is, I don't know, 20 000 or whatever is in LinkedIn. So, you can't talk with 20 000 people. But maybe if you do some posting or in a way personal branding, those people will still remember you

if you reach out to them, it doesn't feel like a stranger anymore. So this can be maybe a thing when it gets bigger. Exactly. And that's the annoying part of branding in general. It takes so much time to convert from the first contact to an actual conversion of a person either applying or wanting to collaborate with you or becoming a client. It's a minimum six months. You have to do this consistently.

But in my personal experience, I just recently had a client to come through LinkedIn. And then I checked that we had first connected a year ago. So she had added me to her connections a year ago and I had been posting consistently. And then 365 days later, it was only when she reached out and she was like, hey, maybe you could help us. I've been following you and seeing the stuff that you do.

So it does take a long time and it's very important to know who you're talking to and knowing your target audience. So this is something that I did with one of my clients. It's a recruitment agency and we took all the recruiters together and started the personal branding project together and did a little workshop and really determined who the target group is. So for an agency from one side, it's the client or potential clients.

And then the other side, it's the candidates and really diving into who these people are, what type of content do they like to consume? How do they communicate? What do they focus on? And how could we provide value? So you have your own messages, you have your own story and topics that you care about and the things you want to be associated with.

And these are all the messages that you can communicate, but it's really important to know who you're talking to so that you can package those messages in a way that they speak to the audience and speak to the candidates. So as a recruiter, for example, as well, when you think about what are some of the things that the candidates might struggle with is, I don't know, putting together a good CV because recruiters probably have seen an array of very interesting....

Novels of CVs and different versions of them and sharing that experience, for example, and really sharing content with the candidates about how to put together a CV that is going to work and it's going to take you to get you to the next round. So these type of things and how to also, when you think about creating content like that, how should I write it?

Should I share a personal story as just a story, like a very long one, or should it be more of a bullet point format of a content? What type of content is the best for them to consume and to see the value in it? So this is kind of the part of the communication and target group there to really think about how you package it. Yeah. I would like to add on top of that

also about building the network is basically when you have done it. I've seen very many cases where recruiters are able to basically fill like five positions in one month or like for the gaming company. Like she reached out... She hired like in a few weeks, like six game developers. Like so if you take traditionally, if you were to head hunting, you haven't built your network. Usually people hire maybe one, two people in a month.

So if you have like, of course it's a long -term investment and then keeping the relationships and then, and personal branding can help. But, but if you compare that like one to one, one to two people in a month, and then you, in a few weeks, you feel like five or 10 people. So that's, I think the power of building that network and having those, it can be more personal relationships or it can be in a personal branding way.

I think from here, it's good to go to the point that how can personal branding leverage for talent acquisition and also for employer branding. I think you have covered some of the topics already, but let's go from zero to hero. Yeah. So when it comes to personal brand, this is a part of employer branding. There's like a Venn diagram where some of the parts overlap and in the...

In the personal brand circle, a part of it is where you work and why you work there. So when we talk about personal brand, this is really your values and your story. And there are certain reasons why you work at this company. And there's a reason why you decided to be a recruiter. So I invite you all to reflect on that and kind of ask yourself, why did I become a recruiter and write down three reasons? And also, why am I working at this company?

And why should anyone else really work there? So if you reflect on those questions and write down the reasons, you kind of come up with your own personal brand messages within the employer brand circle. So this is where the Venn diagram overlaps, because when we talk about employer brand and employer branding, it's mostly the people, then there's the benefits package, also values, all the different parts of it.

So where this really overlaps is, is the people and why these people are working at this company and you are one of them. So using those messages, like I already said, you are essentially as a recruiter, you are the employer brand ambassador and often the first contact that the, the candidate has, with the, with this company. So through your own personal brand, you have your own network, the company's pages

might have or definitely have their own its own network and own following. But if each person think about also the employees working at this company, not just recruiters have their own network. So if you add all of those people up, the talent pool is so much bigger. So if each person, not just recruiters, but also the people working in this team that you're hiring for and especially the hiring manager share

what it's like to work at this company and also building the trust within their network and then sharing the job ad, you can reach so much more people essentially than just posting the ad on the job board, for example, or a career page. So this is where leverage kind of comes in that you can really...

widen the pool. And if you've built that pool very well, then exactly the, you can, you can shorten the time of hire significantly. So basically you can use personal branding to reach more people. And in that case, if you think the more people you have as brand ambassadors, then the bigger is the reach on that side. Exactly.

I want to add one thing on top of that. You mentioned like why people become recruiters. Most of the times when I ask recruiters, how did you become a recruiter? They would say accident. Accidentally. So maybe to change the question, why did you decide to stay or still be a recruiter? Otherwise it's like accidentally. I don't know. But there is a reason why they stayed.

Yeah, and it's really cool because you can't really like study in uni to become a recruiter. It's just something that you start doing one way or another. But again, it's important to go into more depth and tell the story. So like, how did you become or why did you become a recruiter accidentally? But how did that happen? So what's your story? So everyone, the first answer might be similar, but everyone has their own story in the way they got there

and what they learned and realized on that journey. So this is what's worth sharing, but absolutely also asking yourself, why did you stay? And what are the reasons you really like about it? Because most people will say that, well, I'm a people's person. That's why – I like people. Cool. But what do you like about them? Like try to go more in depth and you definitely have some sort of a highlighted memory or something that really, really you can share, that

really illustrates the reason why you're a people's person, for example, or why you do like what you're doing. So really going more into depth is that's the point. I can share mine. I think I shared it on LinkedIn also. So for me, why I'm in talent acquisition field is basically... so we work a lot. So we work one third of our life. We spend at work. And my thinking behind that is that if...

I can connect the right companies with the right people. The other way, actually, the people with the right companies, then I can make like a huge impact in the quality of their lives because they're basically... There was like a number, like 80 000 hours or something super crazy with straight -on work, but even one third is insane. Exactly. And when you said that this is the impact you feel like you're creating, like connecting people with the right companies,

then my question would be, do you have a story where you felt like this was like a success story where you felt like, okay, this person really belonged there and I helped them get there, for example, or are there some examples that you could share? And this is something that you can really leverage and use in your personal brand as well. Yeah, definitely. I think every, for our case now, we don't work...

So it's a little bit different. We don't work directly with candidates anymore. So we have like basically freelance recruiters. And then on the other side, we have employers, but we see it on the other side when the employers are super happy finding the people they were looking for. So we hope the candidates are the right ones. And if they're happy, probably the candidates will be happy also on that side. It's usually not only one side of the story.

But we're touching onto the point that the company can have multiple smaller personal brands. So how to make them work together? How to leverage that, make it as a unit, as an organizational brand or team level? Let's say there's a talent acquisition team that has recruiters who have their own personal brands. How to make it as a bigger unit?

Yeah. So like I already said, this one agency I'm working with is that we came together as a team and defined our own personal brands. And then at the same time, connected on the company or like the team level. So essentially we all have the, within a company, at least we all have the same goal as to, as a talent acquisition team, for example, to...

hire people and find the right people for our company. So this is what we all align on. And if a company has value -based recruitment, then the things that also connect us are the values. So this is, again, the same Venn diagram there that we all work at the same company, but we all might have slightly different

reasons why we're doing that and we definitely have different experiences. So these are the things that are different from each other and on a team level as well. But since we all have the same goal, it's important that all of us understand that too. And as long as we reach this goal and we're aligned on that, it's all good. Just the way we get to those goals might be different because it's personal.

So there's a level, yeah, on a team level, it's really important to define those goals. We want as an agency, one of the goals is to build trust within our client network and find new clients. And second is to find the right people for right positions. And we all are working towards those goals, but the way we achieve them with our personal brands, they will be different and that's okay.

So there is one thing also I was thinking is how usually in team level, I think it happens for company level is that there is some kind of brand already established. So if you look into the LinkedIn, how you will see it is that everybody will have the same banner, for example. And then maybe everybody has the same like whatever is the company's introduction and so on. And then...

Maybe we can talk about also about, so you're about authenticity. Authenticity, yes. Yeah. So maybe we can talk about a little bit about that because I think this is a very important part if you think about personal brand is that you can very easily maybe if you go with the company guidelines, you do all the branding they have and then in a way you don't do anything about yourself. And that's a very important part. Otherwise, you're going to be just a...

A minion. Like a wallpaper. A minion. Yeah, exactly. Otherwise, you're just going to be like a channel that the company is using to get their messages through. So exactly, this is where the authenticity and the personal brand come in. Because if you're just an employer brand ambassador, if you think about it in a very narrow minded way, this is like, OK, these are the company. This is the company banner. This is the company introduction. And these are the messages that I'm supposed to communicate.

Copy – paste, I'm going to put it on my profile. And then when you go through, for example, exactly the talent acquisition teams, LinkedIn profiles, they're all exactly the same, have exactly the same content. So this is the, I would say the wrong way to do it because this is not authentic. And that's where the personal brand comes in when it's all about where it's all about your personal experience. So what unites you exactly is the same company. You're all working at this company, but you all have

different reasons why you're working there, different things that you really like about working there. And this is important before starting to work on your personal brand intentionally is to reflect on that. When it comes to the banner, of course, it's great to have a similar visual because that's the whole point of branding. It is consistent. But maybe there's a part on the banner where you can put your personal message.

So the whole visual is same, but the message might differ depending on a person. And also when it comes to the introduction of the company, then it's important to reflect what do I like about working there the most? What are some of the things that I want to bring out? But also at the same time, it's really important, like I already said, to think about who you're addressing as well. If you know that most of the people who are going to visit your profile, if we talk about LinkedIn,

are candidates, then also think about them, what's the value for them and see where there's an overlap of the things that you really like about the company and the things that are probably probably going to speak to the candidate as well. So use this again, Venn diagram, use that overlap and highlight those messages there. So it's really important to make the employer brand messages of the company your own. And the way you can do it is by reflecting

on your own experiences and asking yourself those questions. Like, why did I decide to work at this company? Why am I still here? What do I like the most about it? And do I have a story to tell or do I have a story to share? So this is where the authenticity comes in and really communicating those messages in a way that you feel like sounds like you.

So when it comes to the introduction part as well, maybe rewrite it with your own words, just like you talk in everyday life or the way you write. So this is very important when it comes to authenticity and doing... shaping your personal brand authentically while still being in accordance with the employer brand. One of the mistakes people like mentioned can make if they just copy and paste and share

something that the company did or whatever. Because I was thinking like if I'm a candidate and if you want me to care about what you're sharing, then the price for that is you show who you are or give me a piece of yourself. Like if you give a piece of the company or whatever everybody else is saying and you're just sharing, then nobody will care. It's again the human element and we want to relate.

So this is why stories are so important. First of all, we will remember stories more better when there's a... not a consequence... All the events are connected with each other. But at the same time, when we're sharing stories, we can also, we have to put in our personality a bit and our feelings. And this is what the reader can also feel and relate on. So also as a recruiter, when you think about the candidate, then also sharing the stories...

of other candidates, for example, obviously anonymously, obviously generalized, but this is something that the candidates can also relate on and candidate experience is something that all recruiters really care about. So why not sharing those stories of how you helped to create a positive candidate experience and sharing that and then

when candidates read about those stories, they really get an idea of how you as a recruiter talk to your candidates and how you take care of them. And this is also a way to build that trust. So we have been talking 40 minutes about personal branding and people are so excited now, they want to start. So what is your recommended strategy or process of building a personal brand? Yeah, I guess I've...

talked about it now, but essentially in a nutshell, there are two steps or the way I see it. First of all is the strategy in a way that you really think through what your goal is with personal branding. Where do you want to go? Is it that you want to create a bigger talent pool in order to be able to...

attract candidates more easily and make it work easier. Do you want to find new clients? So just really establishing the goal – why? If you know why you're doing this, you'll be more motivated to keep doing this because as I said, personal branding takes at least minimum half a year. So you need to do this consistently. If you know why, then you see the value behind it and you will prioritize that as well. So start by setting your goals and then think about.

Who you are, why are you working at this company? Why are you doing this work that you're doing? Why are you a recruiter? What do you like about it? Just reflect on yourself. And then also think about the people who you are talking to. So the target audience, so, so important. Who they are, what they like, how they like to consume information and where they are. And based on that, you can start building your network.

So once you have determined your goals, you know what the topics are and also what are the keywords you want to be associated with as a recruiter. So when somebody lands on your profile or meets you or reads your content, what are the keywords or the topics that you want them to name? Cause this is the information that they got. So really determining that, and this will be the basis for your personal branding. This is the...

This is the recipe, essentially. So when you start doing the step two, which is the communication part of it, whatever you do, whatever you communicate, and somebody asks you, but why, why did you make that post? Why did you add that person to your network? Why did you talk about those things? Then you can always refer back to your strategy and to your messages and goals. So nothing is done for no reason. Everything has value. Everything has purpose and it ties to your goals.

And this really helps you prioritize personal branding as well, because you see the clear value behind it. So this step two is communication, determining the activities that you're going to do in order to shape your personal brand. So this can vary from adding people to your network when it comes to online networking, personal brand shaping, or at a conference, you know that you're going to look up who are these people

or the visitors with certain profiles who are potential candidates or potential clients. And then, you know, making a goal of meeting them and, and networking. And this can be shaping your profile or updating your profile. What are the things that I need to add there? So this is also communication, just making sure that your presence, just, just the online presence is, is exactly what you want it to be and has the right keywords and has those messages that you want to communicate. And then there's content creation...

which you can decide how much you do it, what you're going to do, how you're going to do it, and it doesn't have to be big. So think about those two steps. First, your messages, who you are, what your goals are, and then the activities. And it is step by step. It's not rocket science. You can start with small things and don't have to do everything from zero to a hundred. So maybe just start by setting your goals, thinking about the target group, and then already adding

the right people to your connections or networking in real life, at conferences, different events, making those connections already and you'll figure out your, figure your way out, not way out, but you'll figure out the way you're going to do it as you go on. So you don't have to have everything ready before you start doing it. It's, it's a kind of a juggle between...

strategizing and doing it already. And then it's important also to eventually revisit your goals and your messages and just see whether they're still relevant. So yeah, two steps, essentially having a lot of different, a lot of details within themselves. But yeah, that's a way to start it, I guess, just first reflecting within yourself. And also persistency.

So it's probably better to post or do those things less frequently, but keep it doing over a longer time than trying to, like in the beginning, like for one or two weeks, you do it like super hard and then you fall off like, and then it's super demotivating. It's with everything. It's not only with... Yeah, absolutely. And I guess maybe two tips here.

First of all, set aside a time every week, for example, to work on your personal brand. Just put a recurring calendar slot for that. Half an hour, I have half an hour, but you could do it like 15 minutes every week so that you know that, okay, this is the time I dedicate for that. You can approach to it as just another project. This is just your project. And second, you don't have to do it alone, especially if you have a team.

Team up, do it together, hold each other accountable, get an accountability buddy and somebody who you can talk about those things as well. So to keep each other motivated and accountable. So these will hopefully help you as well to stay consistent. You already mentioned some... So this was tip one, but what are your maybe your main tips to personal branding for people? So one tip is to have like...

time on the side and then maybe have tip number two is to have a buddy to do it together to hold each other accountable. Is there any other tips? Well, I'm just thinking now because it's really about the self -reflection as well when it comes to setting goals, for example, or...

or setting your messages, then there's this really cool exercise called "Five times why". Maybe you've heard of it. I haven't done it yeah Exactly. So when you set your goals and write them down, then ask yourself why. Like why is this important? And then write down the reason. And then for the reason, ask why again. So if you want to make sure that your goals make sense, you know what you're doing it for, then this is one of the tips to kind of check whether...

it's worth doing and whether your goals are the ones that really speak to you. This is one. And then when it comes to communication, for example, content creation, one of the techniques that I use, usually people spend a lot of time writing posts because it is difficult, is to write in two parts. So the first one is what I call a no filter session. So you sit down, you know what you want to write about.

And you just start writing anything, like not criticizing what you put down. So you leave your inner critic behind that door. You don't listen to them and you write down everything you want to say without really thinking about it. And then you put it away for a while, for a few hours, maybe a whole day. And then you come back and that's where you do the editing. You invite the critic back in and you work through what you've written and put it together. So this is a way to do it more quickly and avoid

the "writer's block", which essentially just is that we're trying to create content at the same time as we're editing it, which is, which doesn't really work. So this is, this is one of the tips as well. And yeah, it's, I don't know if there's anything more specific. I'm very, I'm very like LinkedIn specific now. Thinking about those, those little tips, but it's really...

Also, when we think about LinkedIn, the first thing to do is update your profile. You don't even have to start adding people to your network because you probably already have a pretty good network as a recruiter, just going through and revising your profile, your existing materials there, your existing presence. Is this relevant? Is there something that I should change and then go and do that? Yeah, I started to think...

What I have seen is that maybe it's a good thing, who knows, but some of the recruiters, so let's say technical recruiters, so they would create their profile to be interesting for developers. For example, they would have like a description message in binary, so one and zeros.

And of course I can't read it. You can probably put it Google. You will get what it means. But basically you're creating a profile for somebody to like you. And then I wonder if in a way it works because this is not probably you. This is you're trying to be likable for somebody else. So if you think in that angle that we should be ourselves like.

I wonder if it's a good strategy. There is a fine line. And that's again, like I said, it's like, it's important to package the message in a way that is, that speaks to your target audience, but it needs to reflect yourself as well. So in this case, for example, if you're a tech recruiter and you write your introduction in binary code, then it would be authentic if you yourself understand that binary code by default.

It's not like, I think that that would be something that the developers like, but I also really like coding and I totally, I can totally write it in that code. So then it's, then it's authentic, then it's cool. But if you just do it to please others, then maybe it's not that great. Obviously there's no right or wrong answer. And that's the thing about branding, personal branding as well. It's very subjective. But really, yeah, I invite you to think about...

the authenticity if what you put out there is just to please them or does it really reflect you as well? Does it sound like you, but the messages and the value that you create speaks to that target audience that you need to find a balance. And it's really hard to do that. So I'm not saying that. Yeah, I've done it and you all should do that too, but it's an ongoing journey and it's an interesting thing to really talk about as well. And...

The balance is different for everyone. So yeah, think about that. There's probably not the right or wrong answer in here. And also if your message is you, then maybe it's fine. You're just using a clever way to do it. But I just had a question. It doesn't mean that I'm telling that you're not yourself if you do that. But one thing I want to ask is that you said that was a lot minutes ago that you don't have to

post like four times a week? Like what is your recommendation in there? So it all depends what you're doing already. So if you have never posted before, then start by posting once a month, whatever feels comfortable to you and whatever you feel like you can do because you have so many other tasks and so much, so many other things to do. So what would be the optimal amount that you can fit in

and commit to regarding keeping in mind all of the other tasks that you have. So if you haven't posted before, try once a month. If you've been posting once a month, maybe try doing twice a month. So it's really just building from where you already are. There is no specific rule. The average is three to four posts a week, usually to stay visible and be a...

creator, so to speak, but you don't have to do that immediately. You can build up to it. And maybe you're going to reach your goals already before, like with one or two posts a week or two posts per month, which is probably less realistic than posting more often. But for sure, and people have been starting to talk about more...

more about comments as well or commenting when it comes to if we talk about LinkedIn in this context, this is also a way to increase your visibility and can be much more effective than simply creating content. So yeah, don't need to overstress the content creation part. What's your experience or thoughts on the things... What I have noticed is you can get a lot of publicity

by sharing something funny or sharing somebody has like... I just saw somebody share the video about Warren Buffett saying something and then you add something about yourself and then you get like thousand likes and... But then I was thinking, okay, but this is not your content. It doesn't say much about yourself. Of course you get a lot of like publicity and engagement, but does it actually help to build your brand? And I was thinking, I don't know. So what do you think?

Yeah, that would be interesting to ask these people. That's again, like I said, like if I ask, why did you make that post? Can you refer back to your goals? Is it just, if your goal is to get traffic for no reason, then that makes sense. That serves the purpose. But does it, does it communicate the message that you want to get through? Do you want to be associated with Warren Buffett? I don't know. I don't think so. So...

Maybe that person hasn't really thought that through and they've just cracked the code of how to get a lot of attention. But it's important to know what you're gaining that attention for and what do you want to be associated with? So it's important to know that the basics, I always refer, sorry, back to the strategy and your messages. And I know this is a super boring part of the whole thing because nothing really happens and you're just sitting there on your own making a plan. But honestly, I swear –

this is going to make a difference if you know why you're doing things and what your goals are. Because then everything, then you won't see those posts that make no sense and exactly make you question, is this really what I'm supposed to be consuming or this is the message you want me to get? So yeah, but I mean, some entertaining content, entertainment is a part of, you know, we want to be entertaining in a way. So having those, making those funny posts and memes and things.

Are, I think a good idea, a good way to get traffic, but also make them relevant. Also, a lot of people have brought out that, you know, we see those posts with selfies. They just put a selfie and then write about something just to get attention because the posts with selfies get higher traffic. so that's a fact. So they're using that, but maybe you can make the selfie relevant. If I just take a selfie of myself right now here, and then I will talk about using AI

in copywriting, then that doesn't make any sense. If I attended a conference and I took a selfie with a person who talked about using AI in copywriting and that's a selfie and then I write about it in my post, then that's a relevant selfie. So really it's all about relevance. It doesn't matter what you share. Is it relevant to what you want to talk about? Does it tie in with your goals and your messages? In that Warren Buffett example, I think that guy was...

Something with finances, so maybe it made sense. But you came up with a very good example in there about the memes. There has been this guy, I've been liking his memes for so long time because they're funny and they're really good. And they're in a way, they're usually on to the point also that they're like professional memes about whatever the stuff like. But I have never checked who that guy is.

So if it would be something about him, at some point I would check his profile to understand who that guy is because he's doing something. But with the memes, I just liked them and never looked who he is. Sometimes, I mean, you can curate your own feed as well because sometimes you're connected to people whose target audience you are not. When we talk about us being consumers of content. So you might as well remove them from your network as well. That's...

that's not a bad thing. I also encourage people to really curate their network and have those people there who actually matter and who are going to provide value and who are going to, you're going to provide value for them and them to you. So you don't have to add your friends to your LinkedIn network, for example, if they're not the target audience. So it's, it's, don't have to feel bad about that, for example, as well. So.

It's interesting. And I mean, just a little personal story here when I started working on my personal brand and shaping my own as a personal brand expert, it was really difficult to stay on LinkedIn and create content and really do things there because it's not the most exciting social media platform. It's not as addictive as TikTok or Instagram. So I tried to hack myself and come up with the ways that would...

make scrolling more interesting. So I'm really interested in cars and like automotive engineering. So I just started following like different car companies pages like Porsche and Ferrari and stuff. So I was excited like scrolling like, maybe there's a cool post about a new Porsche model. And that kept me going. And that through you know, working then you get a little, little shoot of dopamine that keeps you going. So just

Yeah, I invite people to more consciously curate their own feed as well to if they need to, you know, stay consistent, how you can, how can you make the social media platform more interesting for yourself as well, maybe put in some type of content that that's just for entertainment exactly like following that guy who posts those memes really, it has nothing to do with what you do professionally, but you know, it makes you happy for a second and then you'll have more energy to continue doing your work. So.

Just a little maybe tip here to keep you consistent and give you energy. Last tip from me to the recruiters who accidentally got to recruitment. You can use the five why's to find out why you're still in recruitment as a recruiter. Then from here, I would wrap it up. That's it for the episode 12 of Relancer Podcast. If you like this episode, feel free to subscribe and share it. Thank you for tuning in and...

Hope to see you in the next one. Thank you so much, Eero!